Posts by Island Man

150

Evolution: The Deal Breaker

by Hadriel in

first off i do believe there are some evidences of evolution or i should probably say adaptation.

i do believe this exists in various forms.. however the deal breaker for me with evolution is the chick or egg problem.

there are tons of theories that get passed around as proof of evolution however these are usually examples much further down the evolutionary chain.. what i mean is let's start at the beginning!

Island Man

Hadriel, read and understand the following statement:

So by attempting to suggest that a lack of explanation of the origin of DNA is somehow a "deal breaker" for evolution, you're actually revealing that you have not yet come to understand and appreciate the difference between evolution and abiogenesis and the total irrelevance of the mysteries of abiogenesis to the proven reality of evolution. Your whole line of reasoning is fundamentally flawed because it is premised on a lack of acceptance and understanding that evolution by natural selection has already been shown definitively to be the case. Whether life was initially designed in such a way that it would evolve by natural selection; or whether this happens naturally without any deliberate intelligent purpose, does not change the reality that life is evolving by natural selection.

Let me illustrate it this way Hadriel: Imagine two primitive cave men are arguing over why a child is dying. The more intelligent cave man is saying that the child is dying of poisoning. He cites evidence of the child having very recently been in an area where a certain plant grows which has in the past caused the deaths of animals that ate it. He cites the child's face being dirty with the juice of the fruit of that very plant. He cites evidence of the seeds of the fruit of that very plant being seen in the liquid vomited up by the child.

The other cave man writes on the wall of the cave: "Poisoning: the deal breaker". Then he starts telling the other one that maybe he should not be so quick to say that it's poisoning. What if a another cave person force fed the child the fruit? If the child was force-fed the fruit then that would be a whole different matter, because you see the child would be dying of murder and not poisoning, because there would be an initial, separate intelligent force or being driving the child's action of eating that fruit. So until we can determine exactly how that fruit got into the child's system we need to keep an open mind to the possibility that the child was murdered and is not just dying from having eaten a poisonous fruit.

Do you see what I'm trying to say Hadriel?

4

Was just mentioned on MSNBC that Prince turned down Double Hip Replacement

by ShirleyW in

jw
friends

by a journalist, can't remember her name, but he turned down the operation because of the blood issue, she said he was hoping that perhaps their was another way to correct the problem.

i certainly hope that one line woke some of his many fans about the jws.

Island Man

Did he die because he needed new hips? I doubt it.

22

When a crime is commited?

by Drifting Away in

jw
friends

i responded to someone on another thread, but would love to know this answer.. if a victim adult or child goes to elders and claims they were abused, don't they have to have clergy confidentiality?

so i was told that they encourage the victim to contact authorities , and they contact bethel, but arent there hands tied if the victim does not want to go to authorities?

an elder made the comment to me once.

Island Man

But JWs claim that they do not have a clergy. They also condemn the catholic practice of confessing sins to a priest. So according to JWs' own claims about their religion, clergy client privilege of confidentiality does not apply to them. That they are using it to justify their refusal to do the right thing, demonstrates how utterly hypocritical and fork-tongued they are!

45

Under WT rules, can JW women file for a divorce? Or can only men file?

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

the reason i ask is because while watching the "dateline" episode about ralph candelario, the claim was made that only jw men could file for divorce, not women.

.

i had never thought about this before.. also, how does this apply in cases where a husband is "apostate" while the wife is faithful to wt?

Island Man

According to Watchtower rules, the only valid grounds for divorce is adultery. Any spouse, husband or wife, can file for divorce if the other spouse commits adultery.

Neglect, physical abuse and spiritual endangerment are not valid grounds for divorce. They are only valid grounds for separation.

If a JW divorces without adultery occurring then that JW loses his privileges. He or she would be disfellowshipped if they unrepentantly started and are continuing a romantic/dating relationship with someone else and/or got married.

66

Prince is dead.

by DATA-DOG in

has anyone heard about this?

that really sucks.

lots of dubs are talking.

Island Man

It would be interesting to see what kind of funeral he has given that he was an active JW. Does watchtower bend the rules for celebrity JWs, or are they subjected to the typical, promotion-of-JW-teachings funeral as are regular JWs?

Given that he was ill before dying, he surely would have contemplated his own funeral arrangements. Did he love Watchtower and Jehovah so much that he made arrangements to have JWs handle his funeral or did he make arrangements to have a non-JW funeral?

And if he does have a JW funeral with the JWs capitalize on his fame to promote the religion of JWs?

150

Evolution: The Deal Breaker

by Hadriel in

first off i do believe there are some evidences of evolution or i should probably say adaptation.

i do believe this exists in various forms.. however the deal breaker for me with evolution is the chick or egg problem.

there are tons of theories that get passed around as proof of evolution however these are usually examples much further down the evolutionary chain.. what i mean is let's start at the beginning!

Island Man

You are assuming that life started with the complex molecules we see today. When life first started it may have been far simpler than the simplest cells in existence today. So the whole DNA - protein synthesis system we know today may not have existed back then and only came into existence very gradually by processes we don't yet know of. I think the fundamental mistake here is the assumption that life started as the simplest cells in existence today, then you're taking this flawed assumption and throwing an argument from ignorance fallacy at it.

7

Can you sneeze while sleeping?

by James Mixon in

jw
friends

lets start your day off with a great start.

don't look it up and give me your answer.. i,m not the only one that comes up with this crazy question.

lol.

Island Man

If you can walk while sleeping I see no reason why you can't sneeze. Besides, sneezing is supposed to be an involuntary reaction to irritation of the nasal passage. I think involuntary actions continue even while you're sleeping. So I think that you can sneeze while sleeping. Maybe its one of the reasons why you might wake up from sleep - the loud sound of the sneeze - without you realizing it.

3

Kingdom Song Parody: 91 "My Father, My God and Friend"

by Island Man in

91. my evil stepmother says god is just my friend.. life at the hall can be hard.watchtower's walls can bring tears and pain.

still every day i will bray*, "my life is not in vain".

for god is not my father, memorial emblems i must disown.

Island Man

91. My evil Stepmother says God is just my friend.

Life at the hall can be hard.
Watchtower's walls can bring tears and pain.
Still every day I will bray*, "My life is not in vain".

For God is not my Father, Memorial emblems I must disown.
So He is never near me; To Jehovah, I'm not a son.
Yes the org is my spoon-feeder and my deceiver down to the end.
Yes, Watchtower, my sick Stepmother, says God is just my friend.

Gone are the days of my youth; Deeds of a pe-do-phile smashed them clear.
Still through the wiles of my faith, this rogue is free from fear.

For God is not my Father, Memorial emblems I must disown.
So He is never near me; To Jehovah, I'm not a son.
Yes the org is my spoon-feeder and my deceiver down to the end.
Yes, Watchtower, my sick Stepmother, says God is just my friend.

* not a spelling mistake. lol.

4

Experiences, a rose by any other name.

by M*A*S*H in

every time a jw shares an 'experience' with me (in person or on jw.borg) it always strikes me that basically what they are describing are (alleged) miracles.

in my mind, i seem to remember i was taught that miracles do not occur in today's world and ended with jesus?

have i missed something here?.

Island Man

No, no, no! You have it all wrong! The only miracles that stopped are those that cannot be attributed to other natural causes - things like raising the dead; speaking in a foreign language that you haven't been taught; making the lame walk with a touch; etc.

But the other miracles that could just as easily be attributed to coincidence or natural causes - like a pioneer being given the exact money needed to pay a bill; calling at the home of someone who just prayed for god to show them the way; a mentally ill serial killer seeing an angel accompanying helpless sisters; etc - these kinds of miracles still occur because .... well .... they're less miraculous and so they don't count as the miracles that were done away with even though they're still miracles. lol

16

Thinking of writing a book about jw's, what should I put in it?

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

i've just finished reading alan miller's "fade from the truth", i enjoyed it and i love that it's freely available.

so i was thinking of writing a book of my own.

not an account of my life but more a simple step by step look at jw's and what they are really like?

Island Man

Here's an idea for you:

Write a book about the common excuses and rationalizations JWs use when confronted with TTATT - excuses like "wait on Jehovah", "human imperfection", "who else has the truth / where else to go", "that was in the past", "the light gets brighter", etc

The format could be that you tackle each excuse or rationalization, one at a time. You first mention the name of the excuse as a heading. Then you use sample dialog between a JW and a critic to demonstrate use of the excuse. Then you proceed to analyze and pick apart the excuse showing how and why it's fallacious and/or hypocritical. Then you give a suggested counter response(s) that utterly demolishes and exposes the excuse for the rubbish that it is.

Maybe you can call the book "Hiding Behind Paper Shields" with a sub-theme in smaller print that reads: "The lies they use to defend "The Truth". "Paper Shields" - a metaphorical reference to pitiful excuses and rationalizations used by JWs - would have a double-meaning. The shield is paper in the sense that it is very weak and affords no real protection. It is also paper in the sense that the excuses and rationalizations come to JWs on paper - fed to them in Watchtower literature.

The cover can have a picture of an insecure-looking JW holding up a literal paper shield against an attack. The shield would be painted with crayons to give the impression that they tried to make it look like a real strong shield made of metal, but the color is not convincing. lol.

The book would be an excellent resource for newly awakening ones and even the public that is aware of TTATT. You can think of it as being like the reasoning book for reasoning with JWs but specifically geared at exposing and overcoming their pitiful excuses and rationalizations. it would be an excellent resource for dealing with the rationalizations that elders use on judicial committees when confronted with TTATT by an awake JW.